Comments on: In Press: Proceedings article explaining the Olympia (C-6) debacle http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/ Future maritime security Thu, 17 May 2012 01:07:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Howard Serlick http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-34247 Howard Serlick Wed, 27 Jul 2011 23:47:47 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-34247 If anyone truly cares, how about getting behind the Friends of the Cruiser Olympia and donating money and telling friends to join us in preserving OLYMPIA. We are probably one of two serious transfer candidates to date that are going to file an Executive Summary by the 1 September deadline. There's a been a lot of talk, but not much action from a lot or well meaning people. What the Friends need is continued financial backing from all levels: corporate, small business, and private individuals. We have been making headway. We hosted a very successful dinner in the Mansfield room in the US Capitol in late June for 40 major players on the naval, historic, corporate, and legislative areas to build rapport and garner support. If anyone truly cares, how about getting behind the Friends of the Cruiser Olympia and donating money and telling friends to join us in preserving OLYMPIA. We are probably one of two serious transfer candidates to date that are going to file an Executive Summary by the 1 September deadline.
There’s a been a lot of talk, but not much action from a lot or well meaning people. What the Friends need is continued financial backing from all levels: corporate, small business, and private individuals.
We have been making headway. We hosted a very successful dinner in the Mansfield room in the US Capitol in late June for 40 major players on the naval, historic, corporate, and legislative areas to build rapport and garner support.

]]> By: Anathema http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-512 Anathema Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:21:49 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-512 Total - that's the norm, though he's done far worse to others over time. He's fun as a "punching bag", but don't take him seriously, he's not worth it. Total – that’s the norm, though he’s done far worse to others over time.

He’s fun as a “punching bag”, but don’t take him seriously, he’s not worth it.

]]> By: Total http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-510 Total Mon, 19 Jul 2010 23:28:55 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-510 "You seem to be arguing for…um, what? Doing nothing? I mean, if I follow you, you say that, since corruption and civic disengagement are as American as apple pie, we needn’t worry about it…" Forgive me, as I'm about to be impolite, but I'm truly hoping that the above comment was aberrantly stupid rather than the norm. I'm saying that you have pointed to a problem that you clearly don't understand. I had assumed that the idea that understanding the problem was key to fixing it would be an uncontroversial one, but it doesn't seem to be. So let me start again: there is surely a problem with corruption in American life. It is a long ongoing problem that has been common throughout American history. Understanding that, it seems to me, points us towards different solutions than if we mistakenly believe that this kind of corruption is new and unprecedented. “You seem to be arguing for…um, what? Doing nothing? I mean, if I follow you, you say that, since corruption and civic disengagement are as American as apple pie, we needn’t worry about it…”

Forgive me, as I’m about to be impolite, but I’m truly hoping that the above comment was aberrantly stupid rather than the norm.

I’m saying that you have pointed to a problem that you clearly don’t understand. I had assumed that the idea that understanding the problem was key to fixing it would be an uncontroversial one, but it doesn’t seem to be. So let me start again: there is surely a problem with corruption in American life. It is a long ongoing problem that has been common throughout American history. Understanding that, it seems to me, points us towards different solutions than if we mistakenly believe that this kind of corruption is new and unprecedented.

]]> By: Craig Hooper http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-507 Craig Hooper Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:10:58 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-507 Oh good lord. I'm not saying "turn back the U.S. to what it once was." I'm saying that we should try to roll back the tide of corruption and civic disengagement...very different thing. You seem to be arguing for...um, what? Doing nothing? I mean, if I follow you, you say that, since corruption and civic disengagement are as American as apple pie, we needn't worry about it... Or are you just being totally contrarian? :) Oh good lord. I’m not saying “turn back the U.S. to what it once was.” I’m saying that we should try to roll back the tide of corruption and civic disengagement…very different thing.

You seem to be arguing for…um, what? Doing nothing? I mean, if I follow you, you say that, since corruption and civic disengagement are as American as apple pie, we needn’t worry about it…

Or are you just being totally contrarian? :)

]]> By: Total http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-500 Total Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:26:55 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-500 <i> So, with your point “made” (though I disagree with you–I think the scope and scale of civic malfeasance is different today), what makes you so fired up about the particular point, then?</i> What would you say to someone who wanted to solve a problem, but misunderstood that problem? You'd correct them, I would hope. Fixing a problem--and I can't imagine that this is controversial--requires actually knowing what the problem is. You can't get to four if you don't know what 2 + 2 is. The solution to "how do we turn the U.S. back to what it once was" is likely to be fundamentally different from "how do we change a fundamental part of the American character"? So, with your point “made” (though I disagree with you–I think the scope and scale of civic malfeasance is different today), what makes you so fired up about the particular point, then?

What would you say to someone who wanted to solve a problem, but misunderstood that problem? You’d correct them, I would hope. Fixing a problem–and I can’t imagine that this is controversial–requires actually knowing what the problem is. You can’t get to four if you don’t know what 2 + 2 is.

The solution to “how do we turn the U.S. back to what it once was” is likely to be fundamentally different from “how do we change a fundamental part of the American character”?

]]> By: Craig Hooper http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-499 Craig Hooper Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:59:10 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-499 Fine, I'm a creature of diminutive perspective and trapped by the chains of his short span of life! So, with your point "made" (though I disagree with you--I think the scope and scale of civic malfeasance is different today), what makes you so fired up about the particular point, then? Is your ultimate aim to do, well, what? Nothing? Since it's all already been done? Forgive me, but I think we can do better. It's our patriotic duty to, well, at least give it a try. Fine, I’m a creature of diminutive perspective and trapped by the chains of his short span of life!

So, with your point “made” (though I disagree with you–I think the scope and scale of civic malfeasance is different today), what makes you so fired up about the particular point, then?

Is your ultimate aim to do, well, what? Nothing? Since it’s all already been done?

Forgive me, but I think we can do better. It’s our patriotic duty to, well, at least give it a try.

]]> By: Total http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-496 Total Sat, 17 Jul 2010 15:02:43 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-496 Oh, and as to the "scandals back then produced stuff and so did the robber barons", I give you Jay Gould and Black Friday (1869): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(1869) Oh, and as to the “scandals back then produced stuff and so did the robber barons”, I give you Jay Gould and Black Friday (1869): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(1869)

]]> By: Total http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-495 Total Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:04:42 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-495 Craig-- Look, I don't mean to be harsh, but you're doing exactly what people in every era have done. _Now_, it's different; _now_ it's worse. They did that about a second after the Constitution was ratified and have done it every moment since. "Total–You’re right, of course. One needn’t look any farther than Mark Twain to know that Americans aren’t always perfect. But this time…it feels different. "First, they’re happening in a time when American resources and opportunities are somewhat diminished. The price for moving beyond the societal hiccup of a scandal is becoming tougher to meet." Really? More diminished than the 19th century, when we were not the largest economy or military in the world? More diminished than during the Cold War, when the USSR was still a potent rival? Our GDP is currently equal to the rest of the top-5 combined, so I’m little skeptical about the "more diminished" idea. Craig–

Look, I don’t mean to be harsh, but you’re doing exactly what people in every era have done. _Now_, it’s different; _now_ it’s worse. They did that about a second after the Constitution was ratified and have done it every moment since.

“Total–You’re right, of course. One needn’t look any farther than Mark Twain to know that Americans aren’t always perfect. But this time…it feels different.

“First, they’re happening in a time when American resources and opportunities are somewhat diminished. The price for moving beyond the societal hiccup of a scandal is becoming tougher to meet.”

Really? More diminished than the 19th century, when we were not the largest economy or military in the world? More diminished than during the Cold War, when the USSR was still a potent rival?

Our GDP is currently equal to the rest of the top-5 combined, so I’m little skeptical about the “more diminished” idea.

]]> By: Charley http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-486 Charley Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:07:02 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-486 Perfect use of stimulus funds - on the condition that the ship is moved to Baltimore.... Perfect use of stimulus funds – on the condition that the ship is moved to Baltimore….

]]> By: Craig Hooper http://nextnavy.com/in-press-proceedings-article-explaining-the-olympia-c-6-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-485 Craig Hooper Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:08:33 +0000 http://nextnavy.com/?p=399#comment-485 Total--You're right, of course. One needn't look any farther than Mark Twain to know that Americans aren't always perfect. But this time...it feels different. First, they're happening in a time when American resources and opportunities are somewhat diminished. The price for moving beyond the societal hiccup of a scandal is becoming tougher to meet. Second, the scandals of late don't do anything. Enron didn't build anything. Carter didn't do anything--I mean, he just consumed luxuries (buying imported goods and stuff). That's it. The robber-barons did both. They consumed a great deal (a great deal of which was manufactured right here), but they also built stuff that worked. Even teapot dome would have done something for the economy... It can't just be me, but...It feels like the scandals today are more parasitic affairs than previously....my sense is that the cost/benefit equation has changed--the shills and corrupt folks of today are extracting far greater a toll on society than they did previously. And for the first time, we're having to sacrifice our legacy, historical treasure and way of life to help pay for it... Total–You’re right, of course. One needn’t look any farther than Mark Twain to know that Americans aren’t always perfect. But this time…it feels different.

First, they’re happening in a time when American resources and opportunities are somewhat diminished. The price for moving beyond the societal hiccup of a scandal is becoming tougher to meet.

Second, the scandals of late don’t do anything. Enron didn’t build anything. Carter didn’t do anything–I mean, he just consumed luxuries (buying imported goods and stuff). That’s it. The robber-barons did both. They consumed a great deal (a great deal of which was manufactured right here), but they also built stuff that worked. Even teapot dome would have done something for the economy…

It can’t just be me, but…It feels like the scandals today are more parasitic affairs than previously….my sense is that the cost/benefit equation has changed–the shills and corrupt folks of today are extracting far greater a toll on society than they did previously. And for the first time, we’re having to sacrifice our legacy, historical treasure and way of life to help pay for it…

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